Idinraha unshackled...

Idni, Which right-wing Christian Right Minister did you take that rant from? ;-)

well, SL, are you calling me a right wing christian minister, come on, Facts darlings, your argument should be factual.

Def. later this evening after work.

My post is late since I had to work late, took a very important phone call last night and then helped out a friend on another site till 3:00 a.m. I look like I could audition for a leading part in the Night of the Living Dead, not trying to make excuses for the delay but things happen.

By the way Idni, I realize that this is your blog and you have a right to vent your viewpoints on this blog. I will let you vocalize those views and not "admonish" you for them - that does not mean I agree ;-). By the way, here is the response requested (sorry for the length).

Liberal Democrats are often viewed as the main enemies of America by the neo-conservatives and the Christian Right, since they are the fiercest critics of the Bush administration. To counteract their scrutiny and questioning, the neo-conservatives have been successfully able to use the argument of lacking in patriotism or even treachery for any action or question or criticism of the current administration. What better excuse to do what you want, unquestioned by freely using the terms unpatriotic and treason.

Today, pressured by Republicans (neo-conservatives) and some Democrats, Durbin tearfully apologized for the words used (highlighted in the rant above). The argument presented is that there were “no examples of harsh treatments” but there has been evidence presented by Human Rights Groups and Amnesty International that they whole situation does have evidence of these harsh treatments. Even the story presented by Newsweek was not false; it was the source that was not “authentic” however, there has been ample evidence of mishandling of the Qu’ran even by the Pentagon officials following the disclosure of the story by Newsweek.

G-Bay has become an unpleasant mess of the Bush administration and it something that has to be addressed. Even Senator McCain, Thomas Freidman and other Republicans have agreed that something has to be done. Does that mean these people get a trial? Can the outcome even be an execution? At least the matter will be resolved with what to do with them. There are several arguments that suggest that these people should be subject to the Geneva Conventions.

People make the assumption that without G-Bay and it’s actions we would not be safe; however, it is not the G-Bay detainees that have protected us, nor has highlighting the problem exhibited a sign of weakness. What has protected the US from another attack are the new laws regarding immigration and the stiff rules and airports and other areas of entrance into the country have helped. International efforts have also been made to effectively track the acts of Al-Queda including the capturing of some key players.

People are beginning to learn that they’ve got all they can from the G-Bay people and the idea is to figure out – are we going to keep them there forever or till this “war” ends. Fact of the matter is that this war is least likely to end. So best tell the G-Bay guys, you’re here forever and call G-Bay a proper prisoner of war camp and get it over and done with or execute the guys once they serve their purpose.

The key point is best summed by Laura Bush herself: There is no point on the US advocating the protection of human rights when we do not set an example. The US has been historically reknowned for exhibiting the greatest stance of compassion compared to any other nation, even our own worst enemies. However, recently the situation in Abu Gharib and G-Bay are becoming nightmares for the US and thus making it harder even for the neo-conservatives to continue with their mission.

well my dear SL, it is such a blessing to have you and you inquisitive mind helping us in these pages. It is so necassary to have different views, since their expressions would give more weight to eavh other. and i am greatfull to you for your opinions and views, and just between me and you I like to be ADMONISHED once in a while.

We are threading in new territory, we did not ask for this but we have to keep our resolve and show the rest of the world that no Nation or groups can threaten our way of life, culture and lives without having to pay for it.

I am of the opinion that the detainees are being treated fairly and much better than they deserve, since there has been no solid evidence to the countraray, just here says, and gossips with no actuall facts. We are waiting for the Federal Judge to make a decision on how we should go ahead and bring these terrorist to Courts and military Tribunals. once the decision comes through they would be processed accordingly.

However what Democrats do is mostly political, and their rants and raves only gets to incourage the enemies, and brings the Moral down amongst pur soldiers. They have no other motivation but to weaken our resolve, embaress the government and the whole idealogy of conservatism so they can grab the power. Democrats has shown their desdain for Military through out the history of this great land, and Bill Clinton and his lackies are more to blame for what happened at 9/11 than any one else. History will adress and realise that fact sooner than you think.

Democratrs need this war to end, no matter what and they would use any tools they can to bring it to an end, without any regards for American's safety or the Iraqies, and the whole future of Middle east, and its dependence on this war to go the right way. For these shameless agents thirst can only be quenched by grabbing of the power and nothing else.

Beside the war that we are fighting outside our land, we are also fighting the war of cultures within our borders, we are fighting for our marality, our way of living, and the mental health of ourselves and our children. Homosexuall weddings, lack of respect for any life form, abbortions, lack of Morality and respect amongst ourselves and our kids, the policies of appeasment and dependencies, new racism by elevating quotes and other majors, the deprivity of the MTV generation, The Hollywood sensibilities these are all the gifts that Democrat have bare for us, and we definitely can not allow that. But when it comes to our enemies, there are protocals, and ettiquttes we should subscribe to so at least we can defend ourselves, our way of lives and our land, no matter what disagreements we have amongst ourselves, when it comes to our enemies we should be united, and stay together. Democrats do not abide by this, and at the end they will pay the porice at Voting boxes as they have in th elast election and as they will soon.

This is democracy in action, checks and balances and the one who is at fault must be held responsible.

However some of those people in Middle East etc. who have no concept or belief in democracy and human rights (in words or action), who cheer terrorist acts, have no legitimacy in questioning human right violations by others. That is hypocritical lip service. They cannot support terrorism, Bin-Ladinism and Talibanism and cry human rights violations at the same time.

We must know who our enemy is and until democrats do not HINESTLY acknowledge that, IN DEEDS, they will not get the trust and vote of the majority of American people. The reason democrats, Europeans and Japanese have the freedom to trade and communicate is because of leaders like Reagan and Bush who recognized the enemy and faced them head on.

We are DEFENDING our rights and our children’s rights to freedom. If we don’t, our children will have to pay for it. Regardless of the flaws, I fully support our American soldiers in Middle East. It is sad what is happening in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. But the ones responsible are the ones who have announced war on freedom. It is just that we are doing the dirty work for the rest of the world such as Europeans.

The ones who blow up innocent MUSLIMS in the streets of Baghdad proved that it wasn't Israel they were against; it was the freedom and democracy.

Will hold off on posting or admonishing anyone else ;-), but here is something to think about:

The rationale for going into this war was about WMD and Oil; the concept of "freedom and democracy" was the cover. We need the oil and Saudi Arabia will be very unrealiable for the future, Sadam was not going to trade with the US but he was free to trade with Europe. So Dick Cheney made regular visits to the CIA office and along with Bush efforts were made to draw a link between Sadam and Al-Queda. Chalabi was the next great gift that admin needed with his claims that Sadam had WMD.

Wolfvotiz, Pearle and others worked on creating evidence to justify the pre-emptive attack in 1992. Bernad Lewis, a washed up expert on Middle East Affairs was the consultant. Lewis was the biggest mistake they could have relied on.

Sadam was not a good guy and something needed to be done. What I don't understand is why nothing was done after the Gulf War when there was an uprising and the US government failed to help them at the time?

Even military personnel who live and work here in Texas will tell you the same that the war was about OIL. Even the Gulf War was fought for the same purpose; can't have the greatest resources of oil in the hands of a madman like him. So all the Neverland stuff of going in there for "freedom and democracy" was never the intent but def. a good outcome. It is about OIL, and we need to have this OIL otherwise we are doomed and that is the truth.

However, this cost of "bringing of freedom of democracy" has to come from somewhere? Have we talked about that? We are cutting it from social services - homeless population, mentally ill, the elderly, children just to name a few sources. What about the people in our country, don't they matter?

Let us not forget that it was Reagan and Co who were the ones equipping this guy Sadam from 1981 to 1989 to fight Iran! It was the US who gave him the weapons to gas the Kurds! There were pictures of Rumsfield and Sadam shaking hands giving him who knows what WMD. And it was the US and Saudi and the CIA who trained Bin Ladin and Mujaheedins.

Whether it is Democrats or Republicans, you have to have checks and balances. However, what I don't support is hiding the truth and pretending everything is "rosy rosy" and black and white, good or bad. No-one is really virtuous in all of this and presenting a specific group of people as virtous is farfetched. It is very possible to question this war, the rationale, the government and support the troops and wish them the best. Fortunately Iraq is not Vietnam. Support of the soldiers is vital; having worked with war veterans who suffered from PTSD, the worst thing we can do is not respect them for doing their duty.

There are some good books to read: Confessions of an Economic Hitman, UnHoly War, Bush at War, The Iranian Labyrinth and Dying to Win : The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism.

Sure, I completely agree with paragrpah 2 LL and have highlighted this many times in the past, it is contradictory for Muslims who get upset about what is going on in G-Bay and Abu Gharib when similar or even worse incidents happen in ME, Russian, Eastern European and Asian prisons.

At the same time, it would be unfair to assume that anyone who presents arguments or reports by Human Rights Organizations, Amnesty Interantional or information that does not agree with Bush and the Neo-Cons as being unpatriotic, supporters of Bin Ladin, terrorists, guilty of treason and so on.

Truth of matter is, we need this OIL for own survival, "freedom and democracy" and WMD is for people who have a hard time digesting that our economy and survival as a country was dependent on this invasion.

So...any comments ;-)???

One more point - Rwanda is the greatest example of Human Rights Violations - but where was anyone...As people have argued..."there was no OIL."